Angst and Belonging

topic posted Tue, January 8, 2008 - 7:02 PM by 
This is, in some ways a continuation of the subject I (very rudely!) hijacked Chris's post with. There were enough of us who responded to the topic there that I decided to make it its own post here.

So, why or how is/was it that you feel/felt out of sync, as I believe most of us do or have done? What have you found that makes you feel more of a sense of belonging--ever by yourself?
posted by:
  • Re: Angst and Belonging

    Wed, January 9, 2008 - 12:08 AM
    I feel out of sync most when I'm too concerned with what others are thinking of me. Plain and simple. It comes out in all sorts of ways, but I see that as the root of it.

    Funny you chose the words 'sense of belonging' as once I realize that people generally go through the same things I do at certain points and may have similar thoughts and feelings, I feel much better.

    Not sure if that's where the previous thread had headed as I missed most of it, but maybe it ties in. I do recall reading a comment somewhere here recently that I thought about today--mainly that trying to hide one's difficulties (ie. anxiety) can be more taxing than it's worth. Self-acceptance is a good thing.

    I've been thinking lately also about the 'diagnosis' of bp and how it's often related to diabetes in that both are illnesses that require meds. I'd say anxiety is certainly the same, regardless of the cause. Treat it as an illness and it's not so much who you are, but a condition that you deal with.

    This is where I'm at lately, at any rate.
  • Re: Angst and Belonging

    Wed, January 9, 2008 - 12:15 AM
    Hehe no prob Survivor :)

    I think for me it's just thinking to much in general, the second I stop to even check to see if I am in sync it puts me out of sync, if that makes any sense. I am trying to kill my mind, or at least a large chunk of it that is just chatter.
    • Re: Angst and Belonging

      Wed, January 9, 2008 - 1:56 PM
      Yeah, brain chatter is a b--uh, female dog. I find that only meds get rid of that for me. Otherwise, it's either constant chatter or the same bit of a song going over and over that I can't get rid of.

      What has made me feel un-belonging I think all stems from childhood abuse, and thinking I needed to hide my feelings. In elementary school, kids have an uncanny knack for picking out the kids who are in any way different or weak. Too often, I was one of them. None of the kids knew why I was different, they just knew that I was. Also, children who suffer ongoung abuse, for whatever reason, seem to hold on to a child's ability to look inside others and know their inspoken thoughts and feelings. The word "psychic" is often used to describe this, but it's not a word I like. I was about 9 when I realized that this was something others had lost the ability for (as I believe we are all born with it.)

      After that, I never knew what was okay to say and what wasn't, what other people would understand and what they wouldn't. Also, I grew up with no sense of appropriate and inappropriate sexual boundaries. When I thought something was out of place, I didn't know if I was right or not, and didn't know how to handle it.

      I think my sense of belonging only came when I was old enough (in my 30's) to understand that it didn't matter if I wasn't like other people or not. I was like ME, and somehow that made my own belonging to self more apparent, and enough.
  • Re: Angst and Belonging

    Thu, January 10, 2008 - 5:27 PM
    Thanks for starting this topic Survivor!

    "So, why or how is/was it that you feel/felt out of sync, as I believe most of us do or have done? What have you found that makes you feel more of a sense of belonging--even by yourself?" —Survivor


    I don't assume that I belong until someone truly welcomes me in...

    Once or twice was all it took for me to learn that just because I was given an actual invitation doesn't mean that my presence is necessarily wanted. I'd like to say such incidents happened to me in high school amongst the catty set, but these unbearably awkward situations happened to me much more as an adult.

    I hang out with a few close friends in real life. Otherwise the only place I feel a sense of belonging is on tribe and when I'm bellydancing with my class. In that case, I literally know the routine...

    "The need to belong and the desire to be alone, God what a dielimma." —Patrick

    This! This is so true. Thanks. :-]
    • Re: Angst and Belonging

      Sun, January 20, 2008 - 10:46 PM
      i'm confused with this thread because it seemed to immediately become a "me too" then discuss group anxiety. i think a lot more people go through this kind of anxiety, even some of those people that "belong" than we realize. pbs recently aired a 2 part documentary called status anxiety, which its whole premise is based on as a society we are always looking to belong the so called "keeping up with the jones" effect. we're creating more anxiety for ourselves when we forget everyone is dealing with anxiety to be a part of, to belong to a social group, or a group that they see as their peers. possibly i am the odd man out here, but i feel this kind of self deprecating thinking makes an actual disease that most of us face so much worse and just creates another reason to stress. anxiety is part of everyone's lives, it's when it becomes so overwhelming that it becomes debilitating that it becomes an illness.

      to focus on something our whole society faces, this anxiety (the so called american way) in how it stresses you have to be at this status in life by a certain age or have these things, belonging to this group etc. it really is no longer an just a small section of society it's an epidemic. an epidemic that more people feel than care to admit. it's an epidemic created by environmental factors tough and not chemical imbalances.

      maybe i am different in how anxiety affects me (i doubt lt it though), but often times it comes on without reason and without a specific cause, though of course i can get caught up in this type of anxiety and it can spiral my already propensity for anxiety into more than it should.

      does anyone here keep a list of the good things in their lives? instead of worrying about what i don't belong to, i pull out my little black moleskine and read all the good things in my life from the minutia to the big things and focus on them, then whether i feel i'm a part of a group or being accepted. the meds don't hurt either ;-) but once you can feel happy about what you do have, it's amazing what can change in your life.
      • Re: Angst and Belonging

        Mon, January 21, 2008 - 9:30 AM
        "anxiety is part of everyone's lives, it's when it becomes so overwhelming that it becomes debilitating that it becomes an illness."

        I think what we are nodding to here is that shared sense of being completely overwhelmed by events and situations that barely register as a slight inconvenience or minor embarrassment for most others. The bad news is that we have held on to some childhood trauma that sets us apart. The good news is that we have held on to the childlike ability to empathize with deep emotions in others -- and that too sets us apart.

        "but often times it comes on without reason and without a specific cause..."

        That's what it feels like, but when you can get inside of it and process through it, there is a root cause somewhere and that root cause may be the one thing that sets each here apart as anxious individuals.

        Happy. Unhappy. Those are temporary feelings and therefore temporary solutions. Rather than happiness, equanimity is perhaps more the opposite of anxiety and worry.
        • Re: Angst and Belonging

          Mon, January 21, 2008 - 9:23 PM
          "I think what we are nodding to here is that shared sense of being completely overwhelmed by events and situations that barely register as a slight inconvenience or minor embarrassment for most others. The bad news is that we have held on to some childhood trauma that sets us apart. The good news is that we have held on to the childlike ability to empathize with deep emotions in others -- and that too sets us apart."

          i wish i had added this to my post because this was the missing piece, where everyone deals with anxiety, we do empathize more and i empathize with everyone here. i'm so sorry that survivor and every other member of this tribe has to deal with this dreadful disease. you are right about the root cause though i am not sure exactly what it is i have seen it and it is very dark and very scary and very deep inside me, it's taken 5 years of talk therapy to get to that, yes even though i don't understand why it comes on i know its that place deep inside.

          thanks for everything!
          • Re: Angst and Belonging

            Sun, February 10, 2008 - 10:13 PM
            Not a problem Dh@rmsßox.

            I wonder: after 5 years, maybe "anxioius" is just how you were made from day one. Would you give up your empathic side for a cure? The empathic part of anxiety isn't too bad really. Maybe there just isn't an answer for why you are anxious, but maybe there is an answer how to hold on to your empathy while letting go of the anxiety.

            Although we all have the same needs, everyone is different in the path to healing...
            • Re: Angst and Belonging

              Sun, February 10, 2008 - 11:20 PM
              Muse, I always love your posts. You are so calm and accepting, and obviously put careful thought into your posts. Frankly, that alone helps to ease anxiety for me, so, thank you.

              (Now I just hope this doesn't post right after your "typo" post, which it probably will! If so, I think somehow the point of this message may be completely lost!)
      • Re: Angst and Belonging

        Mon, January 21, 2008 - 9:46 AM
        Uh, Darma, I don't think anyone here mentioned ANYthing like "keeping up with the Jones' " in their posts. Whether we like it or not, human beings are social animals and DO need some sense of "who they are" in relation to the world around us. Each of us explores what that means for us in different ways. That is why this thread was started.

        And, yes, of course, just like anything else, when one thinks about anxiety, that person's own anxiety is likely to rise. If someone says "Don't think about fruit," you will probably find your mind filled with images of apples, oranges, etc. Or, if someone says, "Don't yawn," you will suddenly have an irresistable urge to do so.

        This thread was started with the intent that we could each have a safe place to explore how angst and belonging have fit in our own lives and, hopefully, how we have learned to deal with it over the years. What it was NOT intended for was for anyone to make judgments about other people's approaches to this--especially when those judgments are built on "Evidence" which is non-existent.
        • Re: Angst and Belonging

          Mon, January 21, 2008 - 8:53 PM
          suvivor,

          i began to write a long response and then i realized there was no point i would like to just say a few things and leave it at that

          i posed my post with the statement "i'm confused" the thread and was simply trying to make some sense of it since i don't feel angst only fear of something deep inside. i can see why you would want to explore it though now as i sense a lot of angst in your response to my inquiry. i really am sorry if there was something said that struck a nerve.
          i also don't know how i have taken you out of a safe place to discuss the topic? your still here and as far as i can tell safe to discuss the subject however, in insinuating that i was judging you, you in fact did that very thing to me. I have a voice here to and should be able to make a statement without feeling put down. again i am sorry for offending you there really was a whole lot more to my post then "keeping up with the jones", but i think with responses like this, i'll just step out of this whole thing. as you said this is suppose to be a safe place and purposely or not you've just made it feel very uncomfortable.


          • Re: Angst and Belonging

            Tue, January 22, 2008 - 9:54 AM
            Thanks for responding, Dharma, and giving me the opportunity to respond to this post.

            First, I was semi-consciously continuing a post begun on another thread, which, in my mind, set a context that you couldn't have been aware of, not having been part of the discussion there. I wrote mostly about my son's "lack of belonging," as he is ethnically ambiguous. So, again, to my mind, I was thinking, in posting this, of how anyone is have experienced "angsy and belonging" over the course of our own lives. Again, something you could not have known. Isn't it amazing the hidden assumptions we can carry, even while attempting to avoid them?

            And, yes, you are absolutely right that I made assumptions about your post. You are also right that by saying that this was not a place for judgmentalism, I was making a judgment of you. For that I truly apologize. I'm really not a hot-headed, or narrow minded, or judgmental bu nature--really!

            What I am is a "care-taker." I would bet that many of us here have our co-dependent roles left over from a dysfunctiol family. I admit that this is mine. The "angst" you thought was in my post was actually a strong desire to protect others--who, no doubt, were not in need of my protection in the first place. So, again, I apologize.

            I appreciate your honesty and for giving me the opportunity for me to give mine in return. --Friends?
            • Re: Angst and Belonging

              Tue, January 22, 2008 - 10:01 AM
              Um, ya think I got enough typos in there--not to mention overt errors? I have an excuse for the typos, at least. I never learned to touch type, and most of the letters are warn of my keyboard! (Well, that's one way to learn to touch type.) I too often forget to check an entire message for typos before hitting "submit." So, um, sorry. *shuffles feet and looks sheepish*
              • Re: Angst and Belonging

                Wed, February 6, 2008 - 1:18 PM
                Survivor,

                Thank you for the reply, I had real world issues that had kept me away as well.......yes friends. Again, I'm sorry for the miscommunication.

                As far as typos, eh don't sweat it, hey if its any cosulation, sea i do it tooo. It makes reading posts much more fun to read! ;-)

                • Re: Angst and Belonging

                  Wed, February 6, 2008 - 8:58 PM
                  *Laughing* Yes, it does. There is one person who is a member of several tribes I am on--and I think this may be one of them. Anyway, his spelling is amazing!! Talk about originality! But, the truth is that, since I have to read his posts at a deeper (and more creative!) level, I gain more from them, with a better understanding of what I think he is saying.

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